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Inter-regional Organizations
Posted: May 26 2004, 07:50 PM
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(OOC: I'm just starting this thread in here so we can discuss it. Feel free to write your opinion and any thoughts on the matter.)
Abattoir
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Posted: May 26 2004, 08:01 PM
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A regional body(like a EU type thing, or more like the UN, which is a lot looser) should be formed. This will just to facilitate international debate and conflict. International organizations should be left up to individual nations, like say, THS could form a Democratic Socialist Treaty Alliance, where the ideals of democratic socialism is upheld and fought for.
These alliances could determine their own will, but, the loose regional organization would be present to try and set up peace talks to solve conflicts, areas requiring attention, etc.
Also, general economic alliances should be formed to help facilitate trade and maybe form more tight bonds with other nations. Maybe a standard Military Market and a General Goods Market could be formed, wherein individual nations and or economic alliances could take part in business to stimulate regional unity and a higher maneuverability of economies.

i could be a lot more specific, but that would require entire seperate threads.
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Posted: May 26 2004, 08:31 PM
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It seems to me that players will make alliances with each other for other reasons than the govt type of their nation state.

Rping is great but its meaningless without values. Something to gain, something to lose.

I propose we use the NS GDP+ mil calculator to calculate and convert funds into AO dollars(or AO pesos or whatever). Players could then buy whatever they want from the international market(a thread in mbs with pictures and prices). Any losses would not be replaceable as easy as just conjuring them out of thin air with rp.

I also believe the universe, our playground, should be defined. If a nation creates The Lucifer Profect why cant another create a Kilngon Bird of Prey or a Death Star?
Do we set limits like nonsci-fi? Or do we allow everything and just put a price to it. It is quite certain that no single nation will be able to afford building a Death Star.

Whether it be spaceships or battleships, if players have to pay for their toys from limited funds, they wont be so eager to put them on the line, at least not for anything assinine.
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Posted: May 26 2004, 08:46 PM
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Well, seeing as last time i checked, i earned about 25 trillion bucks SURPLUS a year, before i ever payed my 3 trillion in expense, i am fairly well off. anywho, who can use 25 trillion bucks in a year(1 rl day)?

edit: plus i have either bought or researched most of my tech.

This post has been edited by Holy Saints on May 26 2004, 08:46 PM
Holy Saints
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Posted: May 26 2004, 09:36 PM
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Heh yeah, I make tons of cash, I'd have to check to see exactly how much in surplus I have. I also spend tons on my military...which is why I think that some nations RP-ing in wars are way off. I think the calculator would be a good way to limit certain "backdoors" that people seem to take when threatened.
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Posted: May 26 2004, 10:00 PM
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How about attributing to each nation the same initial revenues, and then see where they take it.

Trade sanctions and/or a blockade against a nation would hurt them economicly for sure. A nation initiating war would need serious alliances and total protection of its resources to be anywhere near safe as well as keep its industries and economy stable.

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Posted: May 26 2004, 10:43 PM
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Giving everyone the same revenue would not be realistic however. It wouldn't be justifiable to give maybe THS less than let's say a nation with 7 million people. I would be appalled if my Frightening Economy and 2 billion population was considered the same initially as say a nation that is Thriving with a 12 million population. The best way to do this would be to make some sort of equation...Like population divinded by a base number set for each economic level, which could be set by the small council I proposed...To use the GNP calculator could be used to the same extent, and I suppose it could be discussed.
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Posted: May 26 2004, 11:24 PM
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Considering that pop size is just a question of how long ago you discovered NationStates, as opposed to others. Basicly, forget what population your NS indicates, at least for balance and fairness in this region.

Saudi Arabia riches of a nation are in the hands of 1 family(he he, just for the sake of argument wink.gif )
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Posted: May 27 2004, 12:48 AM
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Rules as in no Star Trek tech, maybe?

But then again, he did go along with it but maybe became frustrated where a little imagination could have kept him competitive and interested.

On that not however, rping is not dictating what you're doing and the others suffer the consequences.

Im surprised no nation's spies picked up on any of this and nobody saw it coming. Im also surprised a multinational force couldn't come up with a decent strategy to take down one nation that wouldn't fire their death ray on themselves and if they did, you win the war by default.

From what I understood, the aggressors left enough openings(intentionally or otherwise), for opposing forces to come up with their own counters.

Then again, you dont just say " I will research then build the Death Star" and a few weeks later you're invincible. More realistic is, everyone has access to the same type of items(at least in same ballpark) and new technologies become available to a few or all nations right away. Whether it was Russian migs or USA subs, the other side always managed to steal the technology. Russians sold migs to less powerful nations as well(of course, USA did same).

"We have the Death Star now"
"We know, we have pictures of its blueprints, he he"

Its as simple as that.

Now if you really want to make it interesting(and assuming you're still warmongering), you create something like the Information Guild. A neutral player/nation, we all send pms to everytime we initiate a covert operation.
Ex;
I want to wage war v you.
I set and send a plan to the neutral for my initial attack and my positioning for what I expect as counter.
When I will say in the forum, your troops are surrounded and you are out manned 3-1, it wont be because I just said so. It will be because you will send neutral a pm saying what you are sending and I will have already sent my pm explaining where my units were, how many and what I would do if you did this or that.

This will prevent players from improvising convenient contingengy scenarios. In rping, always getting one's way and/or always winning, doesn't exist. Its an excercise in compromise and imagination, give as much as take. Without that balance, you're just not going to enjoy yourself.
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Posted: May 27 2004, 08:12 AM
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So you are proposing we select a dungeon master, like in D&D (I don't play that game, I just know what it is damn it!) and the DM would have to remain neutral of course. Who would take up this position? They could also control the economic matters, and purchasing power of nations of course.

Population does only put into account how long you've been here, but your economy on the game takes the course of the decisions you make. If you believe having a strong economy is more important that having civil liberties or political freedom, then it isn't hard. To balance these you have to make alot of choices. Therefore, economy should probably be taken into account, while civil liberties and political freedom should also play a role. We need to devise a system where we can have these three check each other, and then we can find a way to let them play a role in your nations RP on here.
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Posted: May 27 2004, 02:43 PM
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QUOTE (Xile @ May 27 2004, 08:12 AM)
So you are proposing we select a dungeon master, like in D&D (I don't play that game, I just know what it is damn it!) and the DM would have to remain neutral of course. Who would take up this position? They could also control the economic matters, and purchasing power of nations of course.

Population does only put into account how long you've been here, but your economy on the game takes the course of the decisions you make. If you believe having a strong economy is more important that having civil liberties or political freedom, then it isn't hard. To balance these you have to make alot of choices. Therefore, economy should probably be taken into account, while civil liberties and political freedom should also play a role. We need to devise a system where we can have these three check each other, and then we can find a way to let them play a role in your nations RP on here.

Perhaps, say, this situation:
Low Civil Liberties: Your brightest minds generally flee the nation or get executed.
Low Political Freedoms: Your brightest minds won't work for you, but instead for a private corporation.
Low Economy: You can research some, but your blueprints will have to be sold.

And a game master(not dungeon master) would be a good idea.
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Posted: May 27 2004, 05:22 PM
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Actually, it just takes someone honest. Lets say we all send pms to the same place but the person with access to read those pms doesnt read them at all, just stores them.

If proof was needed to confirm an action I undertook, I would say my pm #3 titled War on Terrorists should be made public. The mod or game master, would then access their inbox to retrieve pm#3 with that title and post it in forum.
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Posted: May 28 2004, 12:27 AM
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It would become extremely aggrevating for someone to hold all of those PM's in their inbox, and would hinder them from recieving other somewhat important things if their inbox became full. If Vilita wouldn't mind, maybe he could open up a new subject which was private to all except for the "game master". Then the PM's could still be sent to him, but he would have somehwere to store them without bothering his storage space.

In the matter of discovering nationstates earlier, yes, that plays a role in my population. However, I have made decisions to result in my current roles in economy, civil liberties, and political freedoms. For example, I worked hard to get my economy high, and to spread the wealth to all, but I keep tight dictatorial control over the government. As you can see in the Economic Organizations thread, The Holy Saints has a higher population than me, but I have a much higher GDP and I spend a lot on my military. So therefore if someone goes to was with a low GDP and defense budget but a massive population with someone who has a smaller population, but much more to spend on the military...well, imagination could take hold, and I could see new weapons being implemented that could be crippling to the other country. What good is it to send 5 billion people with knifes against an army of one million with machine guns and enough ammo to blow up a small nation? Absolutely none.
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Posted: May 28 2004, 01:53 AM
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True but thats hardly your case now is? He He, Im pretty sure your army has more than knives.

What good does it do if one nation outclasses others by 100fold? Are all new nations who enter here going to be forced into immediate and probably permanent inferiority? I know it sucks when you're on top(check out GenGangrene1 on scoreboard at www.esorcery.org and ask me if Im for the reset we are about to initiate), but it will suck even more when none wants to play with you. The strong ones will see themselves trimmed to size whereas smaller, weaker nations will be brought up to par so all have an equal opportunity. Everyone can put themselves in your shoes and sympathize, can you put yourself in everyone else's shoes and see that what I am proposing is a viable solution and structure.
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Posted: May 28 2004, 10:42 AM
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Ok, what I was saying was that the right decisions could allow a smaller nation to defeat a larger one if say they had a high enough economy and a large military budget.

However, this thread has gotten way off topic, and maybe we should start a new thread for these discussions.

As for this one, let's get back to the idea of making say...The Atlantian Oceania Union and stick with that.
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